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	<title>Comments on: Take the spice out of spam</title>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://genaud.net/2007/05/take-the-spice-out-of-spam/comment-page-1/#comment-10444</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jul 2007 20:15:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://genaud.net/2007/05/take-the-spice-out-of-spam/#comment-10444</guid>
		<description>&lt;img src=&quot;http://crm114.sourceforge.net/crm114_tarot_card_logo_small.jpg&quot; align=&quot;right&quot; alt=&quot;CRM114 logo by Liz Manicatide&quot; /&gt; Cool logo! So, do you use this just for spam or also launching rockets? It&#039;s gotta be better than procmail. Thanks for the tip.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img src="http://crm114.sourceforge.net/crm114_tarot_card_logo_small.jpg" align="right" alt="CRM114 logo by Liz Manicatide" /> Cool logo! So, do you use this just for spam or also launching rockets? It&#8217;s gotta be better than procmail. Thanks for the tip.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://genaud.net/2007/05/take-the-spice-out-of-spam/comment-page-1/#comment-10441</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jul 2007 19:45:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://genaud.net/2007/05/take-the-spice-out-of-spam/#comment-10441</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m real fond of this: http://crm114.sourceforge.net/ with procmail as a sending and catching mechanism as per the default install.  Does what it says on the label. It made two mistakes in the first few weeks and hasn&#039;t made one since.  YMMV.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m real fond of this: <a href="http://crm114.sourceforge.net/" rel="nofollow">http://crm114.sourceforge.net/</a> with procmail as a sending and catching mechanism as per the default install.  Does what it says on the label. It made two mistakes in the first few weeks and hasn&#8217;t made one since.  YMMV.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://genaud.net/2007/05/take-the-spice-out-of-spam/comment-page-1/#comment-9106</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 22:56:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://genaud.net/2007/05/take-the-spice-out-of-spam/#comment-9106</guid>
		<description>I started all this to help an elder friend of mine to block *ALL* spam including the &#039;solicited spam&#039; that she seems to generate. Because this individual had the habit of clicking and replying to shady parties, I needed to err on the side of blocking legit mail with all but the squeakiest emails getting through. In the end (today), I have given up. There is nothing I can do for someone who replies thus &quot;...Dear Gracious Controller of FreeLotto.Com, please update your records with the following corrected details...&quot;

Of course, I did most of my experiments on my own email. Lars, you were exposed to the first phase, which essentially required every user to register on a grey list pending white listing. This required aliases for computer-generated mail such as from banks and the like but produced quite some infinite mail loop headaches. Eventually, it seemed to work well for me. However, I have literally annoyed more people than not. Many close friends not already white listed made comment. I pulled the plug when my own father gave me a call. It&#039;s a damn shame though. I really expected people would ask for the same system themselves. Why is it so hard to reply to an email with a certain subject line or click on a link?

The second phase kept the white and black lists, aliases, but included, as you say, a second spam filter (actually two spam filters). This required constantly teaching of SpamAssassin. I suppose SpamAssassin has become the benchmark upon which spammers test their works because just recently spam started to come through despite fine tuned conditioning.

The third phase as (or perhaps because) you suggest is quite similar to phase zero. Phase Four is out of my hands: &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DomainKeys&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;DomainKeys Identified Mail&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I started all this to help an elder friend of mine to block *ALL* spam including the &#8216;solicited spam&#8217; that she seems to generate. Because this individual had the habit of clicking and replying to shady parties, I needed to err on the side of blocking legit mail with all but the squeakiest emails getting through. In the end (today), I have given up. There is nothing I can do for someone who replies thus &#8220;&#8230;Dear Gracious Controller of FreeLotto.Com, please update your records with the following corrected details&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Of course, I did most of my experiments on my own email. Lars, you were exposed to the first phase, which essentially required every user to register on a grey list pending white listing. This required aliases for computer-generated mail such as from banks and the like but produced quite some infinite mail loop headaches. Eventually, it seemed to work well for me. However, I have literally annoyed more people than not. Many close friends not already white listed made comment. I pulled the plug when my own father gave me a call. It&#8217;s a damn shame though. I really expected people would ask for the same system themselves. Why is it so hard to reply to an email with a certain subject line or click on a link?</p>
<p>The second phase kept the white and black lists, aliases, but included, as you say, a second spam filter (actually two spam filters). This required constantly teaching of SpamAssassin. I suppose SpamAssassin has become the benchmark upon which spammers test their works because just recently spam started to come through despite fine tuned conditioning.</p>
<p>The third phase as (or perhaps because) you suggest is quite similar to phase zero. Phase Four is out of my hands: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DomainKeys" rel="nofollow">DomainKeys Identified Mail</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Lars Jensen</title>
		<link>http://genaud.net/2007/05/take-the-spice-out-of-spam/comment-page-1/#comment-9103</link>
		<dc:creator>Lars Jensen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 21:52:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://genaud.net/2007/05/take-the-spice-out-of-spam/#comment-9103</guid>
		<description>Oh, I had no intentions of &quot;belittling&quot; your effort in any way, or to mock you. Well okay, maybe I wanted to tease you just a little bit - but with the best of intentions - or, no wait a minute - no maybe I only wanted to mock you. Muhahaha... 

No, okay - all sillyness aside, I was actually thinking about the approach you had about white-listing people by giving them a reply-message and letting them answer a question to prove they were sincere emailers and not a spam-bot. Is that approach described anywhere by you?

I know I thought that approach was cumbersome, but it would definetely sort out most spammers and also the ignorant people who wouldn&#039;t be able to write you. Totally unlike this blog, where any ass-wife can leave a comment. ;-)

&lt;blockquote&gt;
“To understand everything is to forgive everything”

Hindu Prince Gautama Siddharta, the founder of Buddhism, 563-483 B.C.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, I had no intentions of &#8220;belittling&#8221; your effort in any way, or to mock you. Well okay, maybe I wanted to tease you just a little bit &#8211; but with the best of intentions &#8211; or, no wait a minute &#8211; no maybe I only wanted to mock you. Muhahaha&#8230; </p>
<p>No, okay &#8211; all sillyness aside, I was actually thinking about the approach you had about white-listing people by giving them a reply-message and letting them answer a question to prove they were sincere emailers and not a spam-bot. Is that approach described anywhere by you?</p>
<p>I know I thought that approach was cumbersome, but it would definetely sort out most spammers and also the ignorant people who wouldn&#8217;t be able to write you. Totally unlike this blog, where any ass-wife can leave a comment. <img src='http://genaud.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<blockquote><p>
“To understand everything is to forgive everything”</p>
<p>Hindu Prince Gautama Siddharta, the founder of Buddhism, 563-483 B.C.
</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://genaud.net/2007/05/take-the-spice-out-of-spam/comment-page-1/#comment-9078</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jun 2007 23:36:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://genaud.net/2007/05/take-the-spice-out-of-spam/#comment-9078</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before...He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way.&quot;
-Kurt Vonnegut, Cat&#039;s Cradle
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I am starting to think you are correct. I&#039;ve learned the ins-and-outs of the otherwise completely asinine streaming &#039;programming language&#039; &lt;code&gt;procmail&lt;/code&gt;. While I like the greater white list control, address expiration messages, and the ability to create numerous aliases (alex.youtube@whatever.com), teaching spam assassin through ssh is an infinitely bigger pain in the butt than the &quot;Report Spam&quot; button. However, Gmail does not allow one to filter on the message headers nor up the spam aggressiveness. I have a higher tolerance for false positives (deleted ham) than false negatives (spam).

But Lars, consider well the words of the late Kurt and be scared. Be scared.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>&#8220;Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before&#8230;He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way.&#8221;<br />
-Kurt Vonnegut, Cat&#8217;s Cradle
</p></blockquote>
<p>I am starting to think you are correct. I&#8217;ve learned the ins-and-outs of the otherwise completely asinine streaming &#8216;programming language&#8217; <code>procmail</code>. While I like the greater white list control, address expiration messages, and the ability to create numerous aliases (alex.youtube@whatever.com), teaching spam assassin through ssh is an infinitely bigger pain in the butt than the &#8220;Report Spam&#8221; button. However, Gmail does not allow one to filter on the message headers nor up the spam aggressiveness. I have a higher tolerance for false positives (deleted ham) than false negatives (spam).</p>
<p>But Lars, consider well the words of the late Kurt and be scared. Be scared.</p>
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